2° Quote: (Originally Posted by deepbleau)
Hi Paul!
I am Gian A. Ameri and the author and the person to whom you refer to as having "no integrity" and I have no connections with CEN, TC97, or the APOC crowd.
Aggiungo:
To: Dr. Alessandro Marroni, M.D.
President & CEO, DAN Europe Foundation
Chief Medical Officer, DAN Europe Foundation
President, IDAN (International Divers Alert Network)
From: Gian A. Ameri
DAN Member 000299.1021.0062 SM
Date: 08 March 2010
Subject:
ew Proposed Rebreather Diving CE Safety Standard –
prE
14143:2010 Public Consultation Process
Dear Dr. Marroni,
I am a DAN Member and I have been diving since my first basic diving course in
1984 as part of my university studies. I love diving and believe in dive training. I have
slowly progressed over the years to Advanced Open Water level, and then Enriched
Air Nitrox, when one day, in 2006, I saw a man walking on a Maldivian pontoon with
a yellow box strapped on his back, and I had to ask: “What is that?” He candidly
replied: “It is a rebreather, the Yellow Box of Death.”
He became my first rebreather instructor and since that first rebreather dive in 2006 I
have become enamoured with rebreather diving (silent, warmer, longer time
underwater, closer to nature...). I then progressed to Trimix Rebreather Diving and
thereafter Rebreather Explorer Level 5 (“May use the specific rebreather system with
helium and oxygen mixture without limitations”), until one day, I saw on the internet
a video of an underwater cave, and asked my instructor, “Is that what caves look like
inside?” I became a certified Full Cave Diver. I then joined a Speleology group and
became a Survey Diver and Cartography Diver. Finally, last summer I graduated from
the self-taught school of Solo eCCR Cave Diving.
I no longer dive the “Yellow Box of Death,” but I dive what a friend and top diving
engineer has christened: the “Black Box of Death.”
These ominous sounding nicknames have not come about for no reason, as sadly there
have been many dive fatalities, in absolute and relative terms, whilst diving using a
rebreather. Accidents can happen and do happen open circuit as well on traditional
SCUBA cylinders and regulator. I still remember vividly my first “out-of-air” training
drill in 1984 and I hated that feeling. The instructor turned off my air supply, and I
slowly breathed down the remaining pressure in the regulator, and “Ugh...” – no gas.
Horrible feeling, but as horrible as it is, the diver when diving open circuit can still
take remedial action by switching to an alternate air supply (or doing a free ascent in
the extreme). In rebreather diving, you do not have this luxury of the “Ugh...”
reaction, as horrible a feeling out-of-air is.
When a rebreather fails to deliver a life-sustaining mix, you can go from happy to
unconscious with no warning, at any time, at any point of the dive, at any depth, from
one moment to the next. You go unconscious, the mouthpiece falls out of your mouth,
you drown, the rebreather fills with water, you sink, and if and when you and the
equipment is recovered, it is nearly impossible to determine with certainty the cause
of the death (machine error, human error, both, when, how, why...).
I am writing to you because we are at a turning point in rebreather diving. The
rebreather diving industry is relatively young and it has moved out of the stage of the
“first pioneers” and it is well into the stage of the “early adopters,” and the prospect is
for rebreather diving to develop into a mass market, as it is great fun, and equipment
and training can become more affordable with increased sales volumes.
This turning point is coinciding, and not by chance or accident, with a new rebreather
diving CE safety standard “prEN14143:2010” being proposed by the rebreather
diving industry to replace the current rebreather CE safety standard “EN14143:2003.”
As part of the process of finalising this standard, we are now at a stage where it is
possible for individuals, groups, and institutions to comment and make proposed
changes to prEN14143:2010.
I am writing you to ask DAN to publicise the fact that comment and proposed
changes can be made to prEN14143:2010, to whom, and how, and to ask that fellow
rebreather divers, open circuit divers, diving professionals, any divers, hyperbaric
medical specialists, engineers, family and friends of rebreather divers, and anyone
who can make a positive contribution to the process of creating this new CE safety
standard takes an active role and makes a positive contribution.
I am writing to you because I also perceive a danger in this prEN14143:2010 standard
for the future generation of rebreather divers to come. I have three young children,
who are only at the early stages of diving as little PADI bubblemakers, but they love
it, and no doubt they will progress one day into rebreather diving.
The danger exist not in those parts where the new prEN14143:2010 improves on the
current EN14143:2003 standard, but where prEN14143:2010 raises the risk level for
the rebreather user relative to EN14143:2003 - despite the already high level of
rebreather dive fatalities.
Let the future rebreathers be nicknamed the “Yellow Box of Delight!”
To this end, I enclose with my letter:
a. “prEN14143 BSI DPC.pdf” - this is the new proposed European rebreather CE
safety standard, not yet implemented and not in force, but subject of public
comments and proposals until 31 May 2010 as part of a Europe wide public
consultation process.
b. “en14143_2003.pdf” - this is the current European rebreather CE safety
standard currently implemented in Europe and in force.
c. www.cen.eu/cen/Members/Pages/default.aspx - this is the internet link listing
all the European member bodies responsible for collecting comments and
proposals to prEN14143:2010 and to whom comments and proposals must be
addressed to as part of the public consultation process.
d. “Blank Template for CEN and ISO Comments.rtf” - this is the template and
format which must be used to make the comments and proposals to the
European member bodies responsible for collecting comments and proposals
to prEN14143:2010 (otherwise the comments and proposals will be rejected).
e. “prEN14143 2010 Comments and Proposals Final IE.pdf” - this is the
comments and proposals form which I have submitted to date in its final
format (“IE” in the first column is the ISO 3166 country code for Ireland).
f. www.iso.org/iso/english_country_names_and_code_elements - this is the
internet link with the list of each ISO 3166 country code to be used in the first
column of the “Blank Template for CEN and ISO Comments.rtf”
One last thing I ask. I ask for DAN as an organization, and DAN professionals as
individuals, to take an active role and contribute their collective expertise to the
creation of the new CE rebreather safety standard for the future generation of
rebreather divers to come.
Sincerely,
Gian A. Ameri
DAN Member 000299.1021.0062 SM
Essendo sia questo che quelli antecedenti, tutti dati pubblici non ho violato alcunchè
Saluti
Aggiungo:
To: Dr. Alessandro Marroni, M.D.
President & CEO, DAN Europe Foundation
Chief Medical Officer, DAN Europe Foundation
President, IDAN (International Divers Alert Network)
From: Gian A. Ameri
DAN Member 000299.1021.0062 SM
Date: 08 March 2010
Subject:
ew Proposed Rebreather Diving CE Safety Standard –
prE
14143:2010 Public Consultation Process
Dear Dr. Marroni,
I am a DAN Member and I have been diving since my first basic diving course in
1984 as part of my university studies. I love diving and believe in dive training. I have
slowly progressed over the years to Advanced Open Water level, and then Enriched
Air Nitrox, when one day, in 2006, I saw a man walking on a Maldivian pontoon with
a yellow box strapped on his back, and I had to ask: “What is that?” He candidly
replied: “It is a rebreather, the Yellow Box of Death.”
He became my first rebreather instructor and since that first rebreather dive in 2006 I
have become enamoured with rebreather diving (silent, warmer, longer time
underwater, closer to nature...). I then progressed to Trimix Rebreather Diving and
thereafter Rebreather Explorer Level 5 (“May use the specific rebreather system with
helium and oxygen mixture without limitations”), until one day, I saw on the internet
a video of an underwater cave, and asked my instructor, “Is that what caves look like
inside?” I became a certified Full Cave Diver. I then joined a Speleology group and
became a Survey Diver and Cartography Diver. Finally, last summer I graduated from
the self-taught school of Solo eCCR Cave Diving.
I no longer dive the “Yellow Box of Death,” but I dive what a friend and top diving
engineer has christened: the “Black Box of Death.”
These ominous sounding nicknames have not come about for no reason, as sadly there
have been many dive fatalities, in absolute and relative terms, whilst diving using a
rebreather. Accidents can happen and do happen open circuit as well on traditional
SCUBA cylinders and regulator. I still remember vividly my first “out-of-air” training
drill in 1984 and I hated that feeling. The instructor turned off my air supply, and I
slowly breathed down the remaining pressure in the regulator, and “Ugh...” – no gas.
Horrible feeling, but as horrible as it is, the diver when diving open circuit can still
take remedial action by switching to an alternate air supply (or doing a free ascent in
the extreme). In rebreather diving, you do not have this luxury of the “Ugh...”
reaction, as horrible a feeling out-of-air is.
When a rebreather fails to deliver a life-sustaining mix, you can go from happy to
unconscious with no warning, at any time, at any point of the dive, at any depth, from
one moment to the next. You go unconscious, the mouthpiece falls out of your mouth,
you drown, the rebreather fills with water, you sink, and if and when you and the
equipment is recovered, it is nearly impossible to determine with certainty the cause
of the death (machine error, human error, both, when, how, why...).
I am writing to you because we are at a turning point in rebreather diving. The
rebreather diving industry is relatively young and it has moved out of the stage of the
“first pioneers” and it is well into the stage of the “early adopters,” and the prospect is
for rebreather diving to develop into a mass market, as it is great fun, and equipment
and training can become more affordable with increased sales volumes.
This turning point is coinciding, and not by chance or accident, with a new rebreather
diving CE safety standard “prEN14143:2010” being proposed by the rebreather
diving industry to replace the current rebreather CE safety standard “EN14143:2003.”
As part of the process of finalising this standard, we are now at a stage where it is
possible for individuals, groups, and institutions to comment and make proposed
changes to prEN14143:2010.
I am writing you to ask DAN to publicise the fact that comment and proposed
changes can be made to prEN14143:2010, to whom, and how, and to ask that fellow
rebreather divers, open circuit divers, diving professionals, any divers, hyperbaric
medical specialists, engineers, family and friends of rebreather divers, and anyone
who can make a positive contribution to the process of creating this new CE safety
standard takes an active role and makes a positive contribution.
I am writing to you because I also perceive a danger in this prEN14143:2010 standard
for the future generation of rebreather divers to come. I have three young children,
who are only at the early stages of diving as little PADI bubblemakers, but they love
it, and no doubt they will progress one day into rebreather diving.
The danger exist not in those parts where the new prEN14143:2010 improves on the
current EN14143:2003 standard, but where prEN14143:2010 raises the risk level for
the rebreather user relative to EN14143:2003 - despite the already high level of
rebreather dive fatalities.
Let the future rebreathers be nicknamed the “Yellow Box of Delight!”
To this end, I enclose with my letter:
a. “prEN14143 BSI DPC.pdf” - this is the new proposed European rebreather CE
safety standard, not yet implemented and not in force, but subject of public
comments and proposals until 31 May 2010 as part of a Europe wide public
consultation process.
b. “en14143_2003.pdf” - this is the current European rebreather CE safety
standard currently implemented in Europe and in force.
c. www.cen.eu/cen/Members/Pages/default.aspx - this is the internet link listing
all the European member bodies responsible for collecting comments and
proposals to prEN14143:2010 and to whom comments and proposals must be
addressed to as part of the public consultation process.
d. “Blank Template for CEN and ISO Comments.rtf” - this is the template and
format which must be used to make the comments and proposals to the
European member bodies responsible for collecting comments and proposals
to prEN14143:2010 (otherwise the comments and proposals will be rejected).
e. “prEN14143 2010 Comments and Proposals Final IE.pdf” - this is the
comments and proposals form which I have submitted to date in its final
format (“IE” in the first column is the ISO 3166 country code for Ireland).
f. www.iso.org/iso/english_country_names_and_code_elements - this is the
internet link with the list of each ISO 3166 country code to be used in the first
column of the “Blank Template for CEN and ISO Comments.rtf”
One last thing I ask. I ask for DAN as an organization, and DAN professionals as
individuals, to take an active role and contribute their collective expertise to the
creation of the new CE rebreather safety standard for the future generation of
rebreather divers to come.
Sincerely,
Gian A. Ameri
DAN Member 000299.1021.0062 SM
Essendo sia questo che quelli antecedenti, tutti dati pubblici non ho violato alcunchè
Saluti
L'averla postata è indice da parte mia di non pregiudizio nè nella tua persona, nè nella tua battaglia. Cosa che ho già detto a suo tempo.
Per far ciò che hai intenzione di fare, però non occorre mettersi in mostra o su un piedistallo, si hanno più adesioni alla causa con toni e argomentazioni più consoni; in particolare, quando si hanno i piedi di argilla; ma capisco che certi atteggiamenti servano per mascherare le mancanze.
Saluti e in bocca al lupo
Attendendo buone nuove
No No, a te non ti deve convocare Emilio Fido o Lele Mora , ma Claudio Bisio!!!! Sei perfetto per ZELIG!!f
Adesso basta che senno mi scompiscio e poi c'ho da studià che domani c'ho l'esame patente nautica
Grazie per le risate!!!!
Ciao CICCIO!!!
Adesso ti BANNO sul serio
Registrato: Apr 03, 2004 Messaggi: 3570 Località: La Spezia
Inviato: Lun Nov 29, 2010 11:53 pm Oggetto: Scusate ma...
Scusate ma... perché le lettere ad Alessandro le scrivete in inglese? E' italiano, ci siamo sempre parlati in italiano...
Mi fate venire in mente quella sera a Zurigo con una bellissima entreneuse, praticamente nuda. Abbiamo parlato per oltre mezz'ora in inglese per scoprire che io ero di Torino e lei di Napoli.
Ah bei tempi...
il dir _________________ Il rebreather per uso sportivo è mortale. Il REB uccide. Chiunque vi dica che può uccidere sta mentendo. E' immorale coinvolgere altre persone nei nostri tentativi di suicidio.
Inviato: Mar Nov 30, 2010 2:25 am Oggetto: Re: Scusate ma...
delfinobianco ha scritto:
Scusate ma... perché le lettere ad Alessandro le scrivete in inglese? E' italiano, ci siamo sempre parlati in italiano...
Mi fate venire in mente quella sera a Zurigo con una bellissima entreneuse, praticamente nuda. Abbiamo parlato per oltre mezz'ora in inglese per scoprire che io ero di Torino e lei di Napoli.
Ah bei tempi...
il dir
Alessandro e' internazionale... e poi il DAN si chiama mica "La Combriccola d'Allerta dei Sub" - se si chiama "Diver's Alert Network" e' perche' Alessandro e' Inglese, come quella tua amica di Zurigo
P.S. Sono stato cacciato dal letto coniugale perche' ridevo da solo come un cretino
Originally Posted by AD_Ward9
...when we got our SIRA certification for Functional Safety, Gian Ameri challenged it - he is one of the people that have asked (persistent) questions of APD. Ultimately we pay the cost of that, but it is his right and in a democracy where hopefully life is worth something, I may not like it but it is perfectly fair that it be challenged. Fortunately we passed.
gianaameri:
I have to say I still challenge in principle a product certifcate issued by the product designer and lead technologist.
No offense Mr. Deas, but I fail to see how you can be objective signing off on a product which you have yourselves envisaged and devised.
This doea not mean it is not a good product.
I am sorry to be persistent on this, but I feel it is only right to discuss openly the issue.
I feel you have been very persistent and since 2000 on your claims against APD and I feel it is only right that you accept a bit of persitency in respect of the claims raised against you.
http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34129&page=4
2 post + quelli di saluti iniziali (adesso cancellati)dove l'hanno subito sgamato e, subito bannato; una carriera FULMINANTE
Incredibile... ecco il post cancellato dopo il bannamento a copertura dell'evidenza di quello che e' successo :
gianaameri
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Hello!
Hello!
I am Gian A. Ameri and I am a rebreather diver and a Full Cave Trimix Rebreather Explorer Level V (“May use the specific rebreather
system with
helium and oxygen mixture without limitations”).
11-30-2010, 10:35 #2
gato2
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 153
Re: Hello!
??
11-30-2010, 10:41 #3
gianaameri
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Re: Hello!
Quote:
To answer your question which has come by email: "Are you associated in any way, or have you worked to secure funding for
projects involving Alex Dias???"
The answer is NO.
I have no interest in the diving industry, current or future, other as being an end user, and I have no actual or potential conflicts of
interest in respect of the diving industry.
Originally Posted by gato2
??
11-30-2010, 10:52 #4
gato2
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 153
Re: Hello!
thx for clairfication Gia..
11-30-2010, 10:53 #5
gianaameri
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Re: Hello!
Quote:
You are welcome.
I am more than happy to answer frankly and openly and honestly any question anyone may have.
Originally Posted by gato2
thx for clairfication Gia..
11-30-2010, 10:56 #6
Curt Bowen
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 927
Re: Hello!
Right!!!!!
*cough - cough - choke - choke - spit......*
Almost got that crap caught in my wind pipe!
__________________
Publisher Advanced Diver Magazine
www.advanceddivermagazine.com
"Life is Short! Get off your Butts and Explore"
Page Hello! - The Deco Stop 1 of 2
http://
gianaameri
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Re: Hello!
Correction: any question anyone may have except for one or two persons, but most will not fall in this category. Any abuse will be
ignored.
11-30-2010, 12:06 #8
Curt Bowen
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 927
Re: Hello!
Cough cough, choke choke, spit, cough spit....
Wow, amazing on who knows who and has beers with whom in this small community of divers here in Florida.....
Bye
__________________
Publisher Advanced Diver Magazine
www.advanceddivermagazine.com
"Life is Short! Get off your Butts and Explore"
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, ma Claudio Bisio!!!! Sei perfetto per ZELIG!!f 
